Evidence Based Treatment help from the professionals.

[Carlos]

Hi Jim, hi every one, sorry that I have stayed away too long . I have been doing my homework and doing quite a bit of reading. To some of you, you might not like the information. It may pop the baloon of your most deared theories, to others you will be relief that what you suspect that they were full of kaka, but you couldn't argue or have evidence. Here is the stuff that will make us healthier.

I come here to turn you on to a few pieces of information that may be of interest to all of us. It has been since I met NAMA & Joycelyn got my attention. Please bear with me while I place some links into this post and you might consider adding some of this information to NAMAs educational series site.

This is not information directly related to Methadone, but they are issue that we have discuss for quite some time. Since we for the most part are not professionals we do not get information directly we need unless it comes to us via one of us that gets hit with it via a NOSE Punch while we are looking through the internet.

In fact, we may be way ahead of the professionals since most of them go out of their way to ignore the science they are suppose to know. They are still tring to keep most treatment as if it was an ART rather than what it is truly is a science with plenty and significant research based. Now we may have information to take to your inteligent attorney for practicing badly.

Okay, the information I am going to add is about links and books we may want to consider reading.

Quack Watch "Why Bogus Therapy Appears to work", by Barry L. Beyerstein, Ph.D
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/altbelief.html

Here Heal and be cure or just go to the nearest tent and get faith heal
http://www.businessethics.ca/blog/2009/08/ethical-to-teach-bogus-therapy.html

Gots lot of this, While I can not accuse the 12 Step Programs for being PseudoScience. AS the quacks nevertheless, they never declared themselves to be a science, but rather a religious indoctrinating Society or Felowship like the Washingtonians.

The minute that the Steppers jumped 30 years ago into calling themselves "teatment" and Violated amongs many other the Tradition 8 where someo of the steppers have become professionals gurus, that's where they sat and talked Kaka and became Pseudoscientists. The idiots where only interested in saving your souls.

Now that the professionals and some governments (Unfortunatly the quackes in the Federal Government have not dicidet yet, that it is our treatment and not theirs, so they can continuo to experiment and have the treatment facilities Invent Shit that does not work and will never work no mather how much they want to pray to god or to hell. Maybe then maybe they will stop to be in my SCOPE of vision, and when they start thinking fully about the best interest of their patients instead of saving the face of a whole bunch of 6 figure salaries that some of the directors of treatment centers make. Now the mothers are running to prove that there "treatment" works and it has efficacy. Now they will try to come up with every trick in the book to look like a science and will do every poor piece of poor research they will come up with. I am still looking for a website that speaks about RESEARCH STANDARDS. Trust me, I have already read some very insulting to my intleigence research that Haselden was apaluding and giving trophies and money awards to because some researcher quack 12 Stepper is doing his best to proove the eficacy of the 12 Step treatment. WE WILL STILL HAVE TO FIGHT IGNORANCE BUT AN EDUCATED CONSUMER IS OUR BEST CUSTOMERS. MEANIN NAMAs not Haseldon.

The 12 Steps never gave shit about whether what they were doing was efective. After all they had a whole bunch of alcoholics and substance dependent people to blame their Quackery they never taught how to stop using drugs nor for that matter how to use best praactice protocols on methadone. The have us to blame, their patients. 12 Step programs and Drug Treatment over all, is the only treatment I know that blames their patients for the responsibility of the professionals, the outcome. Imagine a teacher blaming his students because they can not read,. Oooooooooooooh, Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease.

You can easily make the anology that Drug Treatment Programs for the most part are FAILING SCHOOLS that do not know how to teach their patients how to do well. After all they are the RIGHT PEOPLE with the degrees and licenses and WE ARE THE WRONG PEOPLE who are a whole bunch of junkies. Perhaps one day when they start to pay them well for their outcomes instead of geting salary per hour and not having to produce results, they aint going to do nothing unless they will like to continuo to be repressive totalitarian people.


Pseudoscience not every piece of research that is out their is worth the paper that is written on. If it ever gets writen,be doubtful suspicious and the more we discuss, clarify and learn this shit. The better advocates we will become. Evidence Base is a Consumer Patient Movement and the proffessionals better get out of the way. Because they have the Education licensen and Certification it only gives them foundation. For substance they better the pup do their homework and findout what they are basing their PROFESSIONAL OPINION on, else it is just their piss poor opinion, no better than yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience

http://www.skepdic.com/pseudosc.html

http://www.psychology.org/links/Resources/Pseudoscience/

Do you guys remember the Myth of Methadone by Dr. Emmett Velten look for it the bull that people make up about methadone still around.

Teaching Psychology students the difference between science and pseudoscience
http://teachpsych.org/resources/e-books/eit2004/eit04-06.pdf


If you can pass this information to every message board you think its relevant. OUR HEALTH AND THE MONEY IN OUR POCKETS DEPENDS ON IT.

After you read this material, you may want to consider why you are not as angry as I am. Just do not hurt anyone and think of harm reduction as a phylosophy. Just protect youself as much as possible, but when needed contact the licensing board and CARF and the others orgs.

The Education and License and Certification will given them the foundation they should have to do well. To have evidence to say whether something ought to be done or not they need the research to back it up.

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Cooooooooñoooooo

[mac]

I got to agree with you on your speil Carlos. Patients need empowerment every day cause empowerment is an issue when it comes to vital recovery.

[alan561]

Hi Carlos, you're right of course about the 12 steps and how they've become the "standard" when it comes to the government and how they treat addicts. I know someone who recently went into a detox and then rehab where every day they had to recite the "we are powerless" nonsense without any chance for alternative therapies be it methadone or something like rational recovery, a great alternative to the 12-step business.

Don't get me wrong, for those that get meaning and help from the AA/NA program, more power to them. But there are many of us that prefer to stay away from all of that "higher power" nonsense and either choose to rehab with medication, work, and programs like rational recovery. To each his/her own.

Thanks.
al

[GoldieT]

alan....
I was wondering what "Rational Recovery" was..???? I know..Iknow...I can google it...but since I'm lazy and I would rather hear about it from you....please let me know....I am assuming it's "like" a 12step concept..but without the God stuff....as you said in your post....I think that is great.....I get so frustrated with people who are spoon fed this stuff in recovery programs ...NOT KNOWING that its' NOT the OOOONNNNNLLLLY YYY was to find their way out of addiction.....My hubby signed up many years ago....the first time he went to rehad....for classes or a program our insurance covered .....and all it was ...or all it taught was...the 12steps in a all day format .....the readings...the meditating.....all around the HIGHER POWER.......day and night......instead of a recovering addict I was getting a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.....kinda freaked me out a bit......Wonder how many people dive into this ...thinking it's all bout recovery and a few years later they are in another meeting praying and chanting and learning how THEIR way is the ONLY REAL WAY....????? Just like most religions are not bendable....that is what I see......OH you take DRUGS>>>your replacing one for another....YOur just kidding yourself....on and on.....it's so sad.......it's just the thinking that GOT me to LOOK AND FIND MMT....so in a way....I'm kinda thankful for the 12steps.....I knew what I didn't WANT to help me....therefore....I needed to FIND something that I thought made SENSE...and look where I am....made sense.....

have a great day all.....GOldie

_________________
I have lived my life looking through my windows. Moment by moment I am beginning to feel the breeze of the world that has awaited my return. I want to share and learn during this time, so when the doors open and the windows spread I can be ready to fly out the door.

[Maronne]

I'm down with your schpiel too, Carlos! And I am angry about it - no worries there.

[zenith]

Hi Carlos, good to see you back! Jim has not been around for many years, and Hoss left WSM last year, but we are still here chugging along as best we can.

I agree with most everything you said.

Goldie, Rational Recovery is a program started by a guy named, I believe, Jim Carroll. I read the book several times during one of my forays in jail. I have also read a good bit about the program. It used to have meetings but they dispensed with those awhile back and now it is strictly online. They do not practice anything like the 12 steps--(SOS is the one you are probably thinking of that is more like a secular 12 step program). They see the disease as "the beast" and use a technique called "AVERT"--a type of thought-stopping technique.

_________________
Zenith
C.M.A. (Certified Methadone Advocate)
Austin, Texas






"Question Authority!"

[mac]

There is also a program called SMART recovery and they are more like the rational recovery tech but not quite as RADICAL.

I used smart recovery myself cause it is geared more towards cognitive reconditioning of responses to trigger.


www.smartrecovery.org

KK

[mac]

Geeze I just was at the smartrecovery site and they got a lot of face to face meetings in Australia.

They use to have 2 different groups in Pittsburgh. One in Bradford Woods (north of Pittsburgh) and one on the Southside of Pittsburgh (in the city) I wonder what happened to them cause I noticed they aren't on the lists anymore.

[hitch7]

Carlos wrote:

[Marot]

Good point hitch! And Carlos,.. thanks for all the interesting and informative reading. You seem like one great advocate, and a hellava smart thinker

Marot

[Carlos]

[Carlos]

[Carlos]

[Carlos]

[Carlos]

Now you guys might just be knowing where I have been lately

Well, maybe I am becoming educated as a subversive activity.




BUT TRULLY WE HAVE TO BE PASSING THIS INFORMATION ON TO OTHER PATIENTS OF ALL TYPES.

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Cooooooooñoooooo